Advice on hours being billed by Corona dev

[ghosno]

Hello,

I am outsourcing a project with a Corona developer who is now quoting many additional hours for some changes I requested that I feel are minor. I am just wondering if the community can chime in on whether the hours are justifiable or not because I only have experience with HTML and minor experience with some programming. 

 

Change 1:

There is a panel in my app that had the following

• some static text

• a random quote

• a link to a form

• a link to view stats from the form

 

it was too much on one page so I requested that it broken up into 3 pages so it would flow better (based on user feedback). In my experience with coding and HTML, this change would be minor as it is a matter of restructuring the flow (no change in logic or altos). 

 

Is 6-7 hrs for this be justifiable for a skilled Corona developer? Or does it seem like a lot?

 

Change 2:

There is a panel that has a custom bkg (an image of notepaper) that the text sits on. The formatting is hard to read and I am requesting the bkg be replaced with a solid bkg. Just basically cleaning up the formatting to make it more legible. 

 

is 4 hrs justifiable? 

 

Set back page breakdown. – 4 hour total

1.The old Background theme will be removed and it is replace by the green  color rectangle and set this rectangle  according to the layout . – 1 hour

2.Remove old headings and text and add new text and header according to the set back layout. And change the whole set back layout . 2 hour

3.The link and underline text has to be set under the link.

4.Linking this page with registration page to get the message. 1 hour 

Again, my experience with coding and HTML/CSS is that changing bkgs/colors and other basic formatting is fairly easy and quick. Maybe such editing in Corona can be laborious and am looking for what your thoughts are.

Thank you all for your comments in advance

Have a great day

[Mohawk_Man]

I’m not sure there’s enough info there for someone to say whether it’s reasonable or not. My gut says change 2 is something that should take 15-20 minutes, max (and that’s counting opening the project, making changes, and testing). However, I have no way of knowing how the code is structured right now.

You say there’s text on top – does it scroll? It sounds like there are hyperlinks in the text – I don’t believe  that’s possible in Corona out of the box, so however it’s being done *may* impact the background.

I can’t give you an answer, but I’m responding because I’m pretty sure you’ll get many answers such as, “What a rip off! That can all be done in 10 minutes while eating a sandwich!”

And while that may be true, depending on how the app is written, it may be a load of malarkey.

It sucks when you don’t know if you can trust the programmer you’ve hired.

 Jay

PS - Reading the quote for Change 2 it could be that the programmer created an image that includes the text and is displaying that so it’s not just a matter of displaying a square rather than an image. Although even in that case as long as the .psd (or whatever format used) file was saved, swapping out the background should be quick. But, that comes back around to we don’t know how things are currently structured under the hood, so giving a Yes/No answer is very hard.

[paulscottrobson]

Well, it is difficult to say, really.

The time for Change 1 depends on how it is done.

Sounds like a refactoring job, but if it was done lazily in the first place it may take that much time. Much code generally (not just Corona) is rather slung together on the fly to do the job and as such is not flexible. Code is chaotic, non modular - if you look on the forums there are methods umpteen lines long. No comments, no documentation, logic intertwined higgledy piggledy. Nightmare for maintenance (I once had to work on a 2,000 line C file with two functions, no comments, and all the variables named a,b,c,d,e … in the end I chucked it and rewrote it, it was quicker !)

Having said that, you could probably cheat it quickly by actually leaving it all on one screen and ‘pretending’ to change screen when actually what you are doing is making some elements invisible and some visible, with some tabs and buttons or something.

Change 2 is ridiculous. Apart from the fact that basically all you have to do is replace an image with a rectangle, you could do this very quickly by simply changing the custom background image so it is a solid colour - which would take about 30 seconds.

Unless it is reused elsewhere, you don’t need to change the code at *all* (so no testing issues, not that the change really requires much !). Obviously this isn’t an ideal solution but it does kinda show it shouldn’t take four hours.

[ghosno]

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for your responses. These responses also help me learn more about how things are accomplished in Corona so I can be a more informed client. 

Just to clarify for @Mohawk Man

 

Change 1:

There is a panel in my app that had the following

• some static text (no scrolling, just a heading and 2 lines)

• a random quote (from a list of 20)

• a link to a form (there is a button on the page/panel that leads to the next panel that is a form)

• a link to view stats from the form (same as above)

 

The way I understand it is that the above functionality is already broken up into 3 parts…I’m just asking for a restructuring. 

 

Unfortunately I dont have the source code as they have not released it to me yet (have paid 75% to date) which I am assuming is standard operating practice

 

Thanks again

[J_A_Whye]

Like @paulscottrobson said, if it was done lazily in the first place…

So while 6-7 hours for that change might be reasonable based on how the code was originally written, if it was originally written so that a change like that would take 6-7 hours, *that’s* where the problem lies. If you followed that.

Based on what you’ve explained, it sounds like you might be using a very inexperienced Corona developer. You might want to contact the developer and tell them you were talking to some Corona devs who thought the quote might be out of line, and could they give more details on why the changes would take so long.

You run the risk of changing the relationship to one with more friction, but if they can legitimately justify it they shouldn’t have a problem doing so – every contractor spends time explaining things to the client.

 Jay

PS - This is Mohawk Man – I answered before when I was logged in while creating tutorial videos.

[ksan]

@J\_A\_Whye

So while 6-7 hours for that change might be reasonable based on how the code was originally written, if it was originally written so that a change like that would take 6-7 hours, *that’s* where the problem lies. If you followed that.

+1 !!! Well said. 

It also worries me that you have paid 75% of the originally agreed sum and don’t have access to any code. I would try and rectify that situation at this point before causing any friction. Your worst case scenario is having to start all over again and lose the 75% you paid as well as the time you invested up to this point. Best of luck and hoping that you can salvage this project.

[paulscottrobson]

Yep. I’m presuming from what you say that you’ve already got binaries for this project and are reasonably happy with them. If that is the case I would at least try to get eyes on the source code. If you complete the transaction you own the code - perhaps. If you are licensing it off them there are a whole another slew of problems ; it is not unheard of for people to offer a cheaper price up front and then sting people on upgrades/maintenance. 

How does the time span compare to the work/cost for the whole application ? 

Also something that may matter is if you are in the same country as the developer(s). If you were trying to take legal action against me (say) and you were American it would be more difficult (as I am in the UK)

If the code is competently written changes should not be hard. Say for example you have a game with three frogs on a lilypad. To change that to four could take anything from 2 minutes to a day, depending how it was done in the first place.

[Mohawk_Man]

I’m not sure there’s enough info there for someone to say whether it’s reasonable or not. My gut says change 2 is something that should take 15-20 minutes, max (and that’s counting opening the project, making changes, and testing). However, I have no way of knowing how the code is structured right now.

You say there’s text on top – does it scroll? It sounds like there are hyperlinks in the text – I don’t believe  that’s possible in Corona out of the box, so however it’s being done *may* impact the background.

I can’t give you an answer, but I’m responding because I’m pretty sure you’ll get many answers such as, “What a rip off! That can all be done in 10 minutes while eating a sandwich!”

And while that may be true, depending on how the app is written, it may be a load of malarkey.

It sucks when you don’t know if you can trust the programmer you’ve hired.

 Jay

PS - Reading the quote for Change 2 it could be that the programmer created an image that includes the text and is displaying that so it’s not just a matter of displaying a square rather than an image. Although even in that case as long as the .psd (or whatever format used) file was saved, swapping out the background should be quick. But, that comes back around to we don’t know how things are currently structured under the hood, so giving a Yes/No answer is very hard.

[paulscottrobson]

Well, it is difficult to say, really.

The time for Change 1 depends on how it is done.

Sounds like a refactoring job, but if it was done lazily in the first place it may take that much time. Much code generally (not just Corona) is rather slung together on the fly to do the job and as such is not flexible. Code is chaotic, non modular - if you look on the forums there are methods umpteen lines long. No comments, no documentation, logic intertwined higgledy piggledy. Nightmare for maintenance (I once had to work on a 2,000 line C file with two functions, no comments, and all the variables named a,b,c,d,e … in the end I chucked it and rewrote it, it was quicker !)

Having said that, you could probably cheat it quickly by actually leaving it all on one screen and ‘pretending’ to change screen when actually what you are doing is making some elements invisible and some visible, with some tabs and buttons or something.

Change 2 is ridiculous. Apart from the fact that basically all you have to do is replace an image with a rectangle, you could do this very quickly by simply changing the custom background image so it is a solid colour - which would take about 30 seconds.

Unless it is reused elsewhere, you don’t need to change the code at *all* (so no testing issues, not that the change really requires much !). Obviously this isn’t an ideal solution but it does kinda show it shouldn’t take four hours.

[ghosno]

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for your responses. These responses also help me learn more about how things are accomplished in Corona so I can be a more informed client. 

Just to clarify for @Mohawk Man

 

Change 1:

There is a panel in my app that had the following

• some static text (no scrolling, just a heading and 2 lines)

• a random quote (from a list of 20)

• a link to a form (there is a button on the page/panel that leads to the next panel that is a form)

• a link to view stats from the form (same as above)

 

The way I understand it is that the above functionality is already broken up into 3 parts…I’m just asking for a restructuring. 

 

Unfortunately I dont have the source code as they have not released it to me yet (have paid 75% to date) which I am assuming is standard operating practice

 

Thanks again

[J_A_Whye]

Like @paulscottrobson said, if it was done lazily in the first place…

So while 6-7 hours for that change might be reasonable based on how the code was originally written, if it was originally written so that a change like that would take 6-7 hours, *that’s* where the problem lies. If you followed that.

Based on what you’ve explained, it sounds like you might be using a very inexperienced Corona developer. You might want to contact the developer and tell them you were talking to some Corona devs who thought the quote might be out of line, and could they give more details on why the changes would take so long.

You run the risk of changing the relationship to one with more friction, but if they can legitimately justify it they shouldn’t have a problem doing so – every contractor spends time explaining things to the client.

 Jay

PS - This is Mohawk Man – I answered before when I was logged in while creating tutorial videos.

[ksan]

@J\_A\_Whye

So while 6-7 hours for that change might be reasonable based on how the code was originally written, if it was originally written so that a change like that would take 6-7 hours, *that’s* where the problem lies. If you followed that.

+1 !!! Well said. 

It also worries me that you have paid 75% of the originally agreed sum and don’t have access to any code. I would try and rectify that situation at this point before causing any friction. Your worst case scenario is having to start all over again and lose the 75% you paid as well as the time you invested up to this point. Best of luck and hoping that you can salvage this project.

[paulscottrobson]

Yep. I’m presuming from what you say that you’ve already got binaries for this project and are reasonably happy with them. If that is the case I would at least try to get eyes on the source code. If you complete the transaction you own the code - perhaps. If you are licensing it off them there are a whole another slew of problems ; it is not unheard of for people to offer a cheaper price up front and then sting people on upgrades/maintenance. 

How does the time span compare to the work/cost for the whole application ? 

Also something that may matter is if you are in the same country as the developer(s). If you were trying to take legal action against me (say) and you were American it would be more difficult (as I am in the UK)

If the code is competently written changes should not be hard. Say for example you have a game with three frogs on a lilypad. To change that to four could take anything from 2 minutes to a day, depending how it was done in the first place.