Do people HATE Facebook in games.

General (non-technical) Marketing and Monetization
#1

So, I was reading on the touch arcade forum yesterday, and came across a thread about using facebook in games to help promote your game.  The developer was asking for advice, since apparently he was too aggressive in his last game with facebook, and got a lot of negative reviews from it. 

The thread was full of people HATING anything to do with facebook in games.  Basically, they said that it shouldn’t be in there at all, but if you have to have it, then hide the only button for it deep within options or something.

I popped in and asked about the possibility of incentivizing users to post via FB or twitter in exchange for extra stuff in the game they wouldn’t get otherwise.  And they started FLAMING me with so much HATE posts.  Saying any dev who does that is sleazy, and if they see that in a game at all, they immediately delete the game and post a negative review.  They kept making comments about how developers should do their own advertising and not try to trick their customers into to doing it for them.  It was bad.  One guy even claimed to be a game reviewer, and said if he saw that in a game, he’d wouldn’t do the review. 

They kept saying stuff like, “all you have to do is make a good game and don’t do any of the sleazy stuff and it’ll do good.”  Totally clueless.  Users have zero concept of how buried games are in the app stores.  doesn’t matter how awesome a game is if no one can find it.   Then they kept saying stuff about just pay for advertising.  But I tried to explain to them that it just doesn’t work with low cost premium games (with the average conversion rate of around half a percent on paid games, and clicks costing $.03-$.10 each, it takes $6-20 for every sale on a $.99 game. )  But, nothing I said seemed to sink in.  In the end, they turned to the old “you should do it because you love it, and not to make money.  Maybe then, you’ll make a good game.”  Which is total crap.  I do love it, but it’s also very very hard, and very grueling, and to work so hard and see your work just disappear under the huge pile never to be seen again. It just makes me really stretch to find alternative methods to marketing.  I’ve been doing this for 5 years now, and I’ve tried pretty much everything, and unfortunately nothing seems to work. 

I had big plans to integrate FB and twitter in to my upcoming release, but now I just don’t know.

I was hoping to use a combination of FB incentives in the game, and a free offering of my last
game to push this new one, but now FB looks like it might be out.

So, I’m just posting here, to hopefully get a different perspective. 

#2

My experience with FB has been a lot of time wasted for no gain.  It could be that my game (or type of game it is) simply isn’t good match with FB.  Whatever the reason might be, I plan on not including FB at all in my new project.  

I have not bothered with Twitter, so I don’t know if it is worth integrating.

Naomi

#3

Yeah it’s pretty hard to discuss points with  a “me me me” person - and it appears you encountered a swarm of them.

Their problem is probably they think that since you would like them to advertise your free game - that they should be paid for that fact. i.e. it requires their time being spent for your benefit - it doesn’t dawn on them that your time was already been spent for their benefit.

you have a link to the thread?

I only have twitter - ( no  data) but i only put that in cos apple sent a reject about wanting "sharing scores achievements…’ basically pushing the social.

With the social plug in it was easy and a possible marketing opportunity.

T. 

#4

@ToeKnee - here’s the link to the thread over at touch arcade… http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=217544It makes me wonder if the average users are like the users on toucharcade, or are those guys more hard core gamers? Meaning, would the average user be as critical about it, or would they really even notice? It just makes me super worried to include it now. I thought it’d be brilliant marketing tool to offer my users incentives, but if you screw it up on release and alienate all your users, there’s not really a re-do on it.

#5

One guy  - Kmac… guy had some good points to think about.

My brief 2 cents opinion would be to have a message popup when they tap on a object that your game play is restricting (needs recharge) - say “Sorry cannot use until …[time]” but also direct them to “have you read how to play” - obviously think more about your wording.

The idea being that within your how to play instructions you have the opportunity to explain with detail - " hey I do not like IAP - consumables - other games at that place would try to sell you - i do not, but realise some gamers would like this option WHICH is not how i designed the game to work - as an extra NOT PART of GAME PLAY option - you have the ability to … just by switching & logging into FB within the settings page.

What happens next is that if FB is YES within settings page and they are playing and tap the object they still get the message but it has the FB button.

The key thing here is you explain outside of gameplay ( i.e. the message is an interruption but msg’s (IMHO) must be short and sweet - otherwise the interruption will appear to be long in the gamers mind and their irritation will increase.) By explaining in how  to play you are not interrupting, the gamer would have chosen to look this up, and you can design your message with your explanations.

#6

Yeah, honestly about the only good constructive comment I was able to pull out of that thread was the thing Kmac said about if I do have to do it, to be honest and explain to the user that I’m an Indy who needs their help, etc.  I like you’re spin on it a little bit more even too.  Thanks.

I was almost relieved earlier when I decided to just leave FB out, because I’m really not looking forward to figuring out how to properly integrate it.  But now you’ve got me thinking again, about how to include it tastefully.  It just seems a waste to leave that potential marketing stream on the table. 

#7

My experience with FB has been a lot of time wasted for no gain.  It could be that my game (or type of game it is) simply isn’t good match with FB.  Whatever the reason might be, I plan on not including FB at all in my new project.  

I have not bothered with Twitter, so I don’t know if it is worth integrating.

Naomi

#8

Yeah it’s pretty hard to discuss points with  a “me me me” person - and it appears you encountered a swarm of them.

Their problem is probably they think that since you would like them to advertise your free game - that they should be paid for that fact. i.e. it requires their time being spent for your benefit - it doesn’t dawn on them that your time was already been spent for their benefit.

you have a link to the thread?

I only have twitter - ( no  data) but i only put that in cos apple sent a reject about wanting "sharing scores achievements…’ basically pushing the social.

With the social plug in it was easy and a possible marketing opportunity.

T. 

#9

@ToeKnee - here’s the link to the thread over at touch arcade… http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=217544It makes me wonder if the average users are like the users on toucharcade, or are those guys more hard core gamers? Meaning, would the average user be as critical about it, or would they really even notice? It just makes me super worried to include it now. I thought it’d be brilliant marketing tool to offer my users incentives, but if you screw it up on release and alienate all your users, there’s not really a re-do on it.

#10

One guy  - Kmac… guy had some good points to think about.

My brief 2 cents opinion would be to have a message popup when they tap on a object that your game play is restricting (needs recharge) - say “Sorry cannot use until …[time]” but also direct them to “have you read how to play” - obviously think more about your wording.

The idea being that within your how to play instructions you have the opportunity to explain with detail - " hey I do not like IAP - consumables - other games at that place would try to sell you - i do not, but realise some gamers would like this option WHICH is not how i designed the game to work - as an extra NOT PART of GAME PLAY option - you have the ability to … just by switching & logging into FB within the settings page.

What happens next is that if FB is YES within settings page and they are playing and tap the object they still get the message but it has the FB button.

The key thing here is you explain outside of gameplay ( i.e. the message is an interruption but msg’s (IMHO) must be short and sweet - otherwise the interruption will appear to be long in the gamers mind and their irritation will increase.) By explaining in how  to play you are not interrupting, the gamer would have chosen to look this up, and you can design your message with your explanations.

#11

Yeah, honestly about the only good constructive comment I was able to pull out of that thread was the thing Kmac said about if I do have to do it, to be honest and explain to the user that I’m an Indy who needs their help, etc.  I like you’re spin on it a little bit more even too.  Thanks.

I was almost relieved earlier when I decided to just leave FB out, because I’m really not looking forward to figuring out how to properly integrate it.  But now you’ve got me thinking again, about how to include it tastefully.  It just seems a waste to leave that potential marketing stream on the table. 

#12

Interesting thread.   I include a FB button after you solve a level to post your score, but don’t think I’ve gotten any negative feedback on it, or that it’s helped at all, either.   

I don’t think there’s real money to be made in game development unless you make something viral, in which case you don’t need marketing like FB, Twitter, and reviewers and mags will be coming to you, not vice versa.   

#13

OK, I read a couple pages of the thread at touch arcade.   I agree that I wouldn’t like it forced on me to play - I’d probably delete the game, too.

One person said they hate what I do - putting a FB button after each level.    Maybe I’ll hide it in the next release.

As far as marketing on FB, just create a page for your game and advertise it for a while on FB to get some likes.    If people really like the game, they’ll find it on FB.

#14

Just to put in my own $0.02, I have gone on record as being anti-facebook-integration, as far as incentivizing users for posting about your game and how awesome it is. I think it is kinda lame, and I also think that if you make a good game/app, users will spread word-of-mouth without needing me to set the table for them.

That said, I am in the minority of gamers/mobile app users. I am incredibly paranoid about security, I like ingenuity and vibrant pixelart, and I don’t have a personal Facebook page. The vast, VAST majority of users are not like this. They have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Whatsapp, Skype and IM5 accounts, and love posting stuff on them. They like getting free stuff, they enjoy eating fast food and they want the table set for them. That is not a judgement or an indictment, it’s just an observation. 

You need to identify your user base, first and foremost. Do you want to make a game that will excite the people that actually frequent gaming forums, or do you want to create something that the general populace would like to play, and tell their friends about from their Google+ pages? Do you want to target stay-at-home moms that use Pintrest all day, or do you want gearheads that hang out at the Advance Auto Parts store down the street? Do you want teenagers playing it in class and getting in trouble for it, or do you want hipsters to talk about it at cocktail parties during GDC week? I don’t want to jump on my soapbox again, so I’ll stop there, but the first lesson of Marketing 101 is: Know Your Audience. If you are looking for users from the TouchArcade forums to buy your app and they don’t like Facebook, then you have your answer. If you aren’t making the game to appeal to them, then don’t worry about what they have to say.

For the record, I plan on implementing the option in my future games, to post a screenshot and score to Twitter. I haven’t decided on Facebook, only because I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze. The folks that would play a game I would make probably aren’t all about Facebook, and just keep a page so they can stalk their exes. If you believe that you’ll profit from using Facebook and incentivizing users for providing positive reviews of your games/apps, you should do it, despite what the hardcores in the gaming forums think. Yea, you might not get a review from Touch Arcade, but there is always Slide to Play, 148Apps, IndieGames.com, SlideDB, DroidGamers, TIGForums, and hundreds of other places to publicize. 

#15

Interesting thread.   I include a FB button after you solve a level to post your score, but don’t think I’ve gotten any negative feedback on it, or that it’s helped at all, either.   

I don’t think there’s real money to be made in game development unless you make something viral, in which case you don’t need marketing like FB, Twitter, and reviewers and mags will be coming to you, not vice versa.   

#16

OK, I read a couple pages of the thread at touch arcade.   I agree that I wouldn’t like it forced on me to play - I’d probably delete the game, too.

One person said they hate what I do - putting a FB button after each level.    Maybe I’ll hide it in the next release.

As far as marketing on FB, just create a page for your game and advertise it for a while on FB to get some likes.    If people really like the game, they’ll find it on FB.

#17

Just to put in my own $0.02, I have gone on record as being anti-facebook-integration, as far as incentivizing users for posting about your game and how awesome it is. I think it is kinda lame, and I also think that if you make a good game/app, users will spread word-of-mouth without needing me to set the table for them.

That said, I am in the minority of gamers/mobile app users. I am incredibly paranoid about security, I like ingenuity and vibrant pixelart, and I don’t have a personal Facebook page. The vast, VAST majority of users are not like this. They have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Whatsapp, Skype and IM5 accounts, and love posting stuff on them. They like getting free stuff, they enjoy eating fast food and they want the table set for them. That is not a judgement or an indictment, it’s just an observation. 

You need to identify your user base, first and foremost. Do you want to make a game that will excite the people that actually frequent gaming forums, or do you want to create something that the general populace would like to play, and tell their friends about from their Google+ pages? Do you want to target stay-at-home moms that use Pintrest all day, or do you want gearheads that hang out at the Advance Auto Parts store down the street? Do you want teenagers playing it in class and getting in trouble for it, or do you want hipsters to talk about it at cocktail parties during GDC week? I don’t want to jump on my soapbox again, so I’ll stop there, but the first lesson of Marketing 101 is: Know Your Audience. If you are looking for users from the TouchArcade forums to buy your app and they don’t like Facebook, then you have your answer. If you aren’t making the game to appeal to them, then don’t worry about what they have to say.

For the record, I plan on implementing the option in my future games, to post a screenshot and score to Twitter. I haven’t decided on Facebook, only because I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze. The folks that would play a game I would make probably aren’t all about Facebook, and just keep a page so they can stalk their exes. If you believe that you’ll profit from using Facebook and incentivizing users for providing positive reviews of your games/apps, you should do it, despite what the hardcores in the gaming forums think. Yea, you might not get a review from Touch Arcade, but there is always Slide to Play, 148Apps, IndieGames.com, SlideDB, DroidGamers, TIGForums, and hundreds of other places to publicize.