Who's responsibility is it?

General (non-technical) Off-Topic
#1

There was one developer (I cannot recollect the name) that just compiled the sample apps and put them up for sale. Actions like these had a lot of users discussing if this behaviour was acceptable. Since sample code released by Ansca is under the MIT license, it is all a free for all do what you like. Then Halfbrick studios came in and demanded that the sample code be taken off GitHub.

The sample provided by Ansca was a lot of work, the graphics were created by Ansca, the Code was written by Ansca to have a similar look and feel. Jon B had the Ghost vs Monsters sample code, one of the best samples available from Ansca, (I almost show it at every workshop, meeting that I conduct/speak at) That is what we can say is *Inspired* from Angry Birds, but the graphics etc are totally different.

What would you say when developers copy the whole thing, graphics et al. Where does the line of creativity stop and become Unethical copying? Who should be responsible for stopping this?
* The company owning the product
* Ansca Mobile as the app is build using CoronaSDK
* The ethics of that Company, yes Company, not a solo developer

BTW here are more details to that here

cheers,

?:slight_smile: [import]uid: 3826 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 317106[/import]

#2

Halfbrick demanding compiled apps be taken off the app store or other markets due to copyright infringement is understandable. Demanding the removal Ansca’s sample code from github is ridiculous. It’s akin to Disney forcing pre-schools to remove murals of Disney characters due to copyright infringement (which they have done many times).

On the other hand, I read my twitter feed and i see Ansca promoting the fact that Cut The Birds is the #2 Free App on the app store. WTF? Maybe Halfbrick’s approach is the only approach. [import]uid: 40137 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64341[/import]

#3

I personally believe sample code should only be used to learn with. Or used as part of your game, not the be all and end all of it [import]uid: 84637 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64362[/import]

#4

agree with Danny
I have looked at maybe one game tutorial and a handful of sample code but never copy I use it just for guidance which is what it was meant for. [import]uid: 7911 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64368[/import]

#5

Ripping games is s time honored tradition in the arcade and video game business. Back in the day, I hand machine coded Atari 2600 video games for Atari. Other companies would rip the game concepts and call it something different. Breakout ripped as BrickBreaker, or Asteroids ripped as SpaceRocks. In all these cases, the rip was a conceptional rip and not based on original source code or copied graphics. We had an in house legal team who reviewed rips to ensure no trademarks, copyrights or patients were violated. Most of them passed muster - Maddening, but barely legal.

The templates and samples provided by Ansca and others are very helpful, but woefully inadequate to publish as a complete product.

Sample code and Templates are for learning:
The Air Hockey 2 template does not support basic capability like touching elsewhere to reposition a paddle, save state in case the game is interrupted by a phone call, and the physics settings are all wrong for supporting highly responsive paddles. The proportions of the paddles and especially the puck is completely wrong to make it a fun game.

I’m not being critical of the Air Hockey 2 template, it’s awesome for what it is - just pointing out it falls far short of a “commercial” offering.

One way to stop the publishing of the templates “as-is”, would be to copyright the graphics and leave the code licensed with the MIT license terms.

Some people just have poor taste to do what Jayant describes.

Just my $.02 worth,

-David

[import]uid: 96411 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64337[/import]

#6

It’s akin to Disney forcing pre-schools to remove murals of Disney characters due to copyright infringement (which they have done many times).

Well, I can see that as infringement (not that it hurts Disney, but still infringement), but what Halfbrick did was more like forcing the pre-schools to throw away all their crayons because someone might draw a Disney-protected character.

I don’t believe there’s *ANY* way Halfbrick could have prevailed in court, but I’ll bet Ansca’s legal and VC team said, “It’s not worth it, we have more important things to do. Take down the code.”

Halfbrick was wrong to tell Ansca to remove the code, and Ansca was wrong to capitulate. :frowning:

Jay

[import]uid: 9440 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64401[/import]

#7

cut the birds should be removed soon from the appstore, as it infringes copyrighted material (the design of the birds).
Patenting a game idea will be as ridiculous as software patents have become. One company patents the fps genre, the other RTS, and we can’t have any other game of that type… So only call of duty and starcraft… fun, right?
As for the fruit ninja sample code, i think it will be all right if it is replaced by something else, like crates, so it’s not “fruity”. There is plenty of games based on the same concept in the appstore, the problem is copying too much the graphics/scenery of a game. [import]uid: 44010 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64587[/import]

#8

@J. A. Whye, yes that’s a better analogy.

[import]uid: 40137 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64606[/import]

#9


On the other hand, I read my twitter feed and i see Ansca promoting the fact that Cut The Birds is the #2 Free App on the app store. WTF? Maybe Halfbrick’s approach is the only approach.

They didn’t stop there:

http://solverlabs.com/portfolio/blackberry/bubble-ball

Looks like a 1:1 copy of Bubble Ball from NayGames [import]uid: 50459 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64621[/import]

#10

look at this:

http://developer.anscamobile.com/showcase/movethepot-free-be-warned-insanely-addictive

what does johnbebe think about this? [import]uid: 90610 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64623[/import]

#11

Cut The Birds just got on Kotaku - http://kotaku.com/5854666/flattery-thy-name-is-cut-the-birds

[import]uid: 5833 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64653[/import]

#12

Actually this is a *rip-off* on three apps.

Cut the *Rope* for the title
Angry Birds for the graphics
Fruit Ninja for the code

It is a known fact, if two kids are at home and there is one that is always doing naughty thing and the other one that is an angel, always behaving, no points in guessing which ones gets the attention all the time.

So the attention goes to this company. In the end they will have to their credit the #2/ #1 game in a particular category. Clients will not want to know if that was ethically correct or not, for them the company has achieved a milestone. Similarly the sites that do not talk about this will miss out on the mileage of the app being on the top. So do not be surprised to see more news relating to it in the near future.

The only way that this kind of behaviour is stopped is when the Companies sue the developers for infringing on their copyright *knowingly*. No one can feign *accidental* infringement in this case.

Each and every product of this particular organisation is *Inspired* (read as Blatantly copied) off copyrighted material, it is almost like they are testing the waters on how far they can get.

I have seen the creators of this app in the list of users logged in, so they do keep looking at the forums, etc to see but I am surprised that they have nothing to say?

Kotaku, states that the code is so smooth… well that is a Hats off to the Ansca Engineer that wrote the code. The entire engine in Cut the birds is visibly Ansca Code.

cheers,

?:slight_smile: [import]uid: 3826 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64763[/import]

#13

When I saw cut the birds I first thought was a new app from Rovio Then I
notice was a different company which 1st thing came to mind is someone
copy using same graphics to catch attention and they succeeded. I give
them credits for making it to #1 in app store problem is if you had a
good idea Why couldnt they use there own graphics?!!! This being said
I would agree sample codes are very useful specially when starting then
you have people like Jonathan Beebe be nice enough to gift the full project
for people to learn and use. But I agree as someone posted above if the
graphics were copyright and only the codes were free to use maybe it
will give those people that call them self “Developers” a much harder time
then copy and paste :wink:
@ dingo
I saw that app too and its cut the rope graphics mix with jonathan bee
Tilt monster code ;( btw I notice Tilt Monster is no longer in app store
and someone recently released the same identical game with another name
so sad people try take credit from other peoples work

Was Cut the Birds created by a corona user? [import]uid: 30314 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64790[/import]

#14

A classic case of notoriety benefiting those behind it… at the expense of many (be it direct or indirect). But then, I wonder if there’s any possibility of the injured party gaining some (even a tiny bit of) benefit from the attention? Dunno.

Naomi [import]uid: 67217 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64658[/import]

#15

Yes it was, the username is the same as the company name that released the app and it is confirmed by the fact that

  1. Ansca has been publicising it when it reached the top 5
  2. The code is 100% identical to Fruit Ninja
  3. The user is on the Corona Forums, they could not have compiled corona code without being a corona user.

cheers,

?:slight_smile: [import]uid: 3826 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64793[/import]

#16

I see a few comments about copyrighting the graphics and making the code free.

I’m using some free graphics in a project I’m currently working on. The person who created these graphics is OK with them being used for commercial purposes as long as the project is not released under a public domain license. He says that releasing part of the game/app under public domian makes the enter game/app public domain including the graphics. So, double check the details of you’re thinking of doing this. [import]uid: 67839 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 64797[/import]

#17

First of all, I think that some people here like to talk so much without any documentation about.

John Beebe’s first copyright notice into his readme file that was included when he open sourced his code:

"Tilt Monster is a tilt-based game template designed for mobile devices. It was Jonathan Beebe and Biffy Beebe’s first-shot at creating mobile games/apps using the Corona SDK, and was live in the App Store for a full year (and counting!)

In 2011, it was released as Open Source to the Corona SDK community, so developers can learn from it and/or use it as a framework for new projects. Tilt Monster is still in the App Store (free), so if you decide you use it as a game template, you should definitely switch out the graphics and rename it.

Special thanks to Ricardo Rauber for providing the Director Class which is used in this game."

The open sourced code was at:
https://github.com/jonbeebe/Tilt-Monster

In that time, after this or in the middle, John incorporate into Corona Team as I know and the license was changing over the time.

In my personal case, I did respect some copyrights, like John, Ricardo, and others, you can find into the code of my App, you can found a copyright notice. This is because in that moment Apple’s with Jobs in live, they not like so much that you include open sourced code with GPL rights into their apps.

As he saids: " …you should definitely switch out the graphics and rename it.

After this was another post at corona developer site:
http://developer.coronalabs.com/code/tilt-monster

On where John says in one of his comments:
Posted on Sun, 2011-07-24 05:54
“You are free to do what you want with the code/images, etc. :slight_smile:”

Sorry for you if you do not take “a piece of the cake” at that moment.

King regards and THANKS A LOT JOHN BEEBE AGAIN!!!

Varela

Owner of:
http://idealius.com/blog/movethepot/ [import]uid: 8423 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 140325[/import]

#18

I forgot to say that ALL my graphics into the game have been purchased with the correct rights to use on mobile and internet at Sutterstock:

Enhanced License, please see:
http://www.shutterstock.com/license_comparison.mhtml?hsb=1

And YES I DID RESPECT COPYRIGHTS SO MUCH!

Varela

Owner of:
http://idealius.com/blog/movethepot/ [import]uid: 8423 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 140326[/import]

#19

Um, timestamp? LOL [import]uid: 132483 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 140327[/import]

#20

Lol [import]uid: 7911 topic_id: 17106 reply_id: 140328[/import]