Windows 8 Metro Apps

Solar2D Daily Builds and Public Releases
#21

Why would you need a c++ entry point in any case? Just write an XNA compliant C# LUA host and be done with it. Create your Corona assemblies and do builds via Visual Studio (like you use XCode on Apple machines).

It’s quite trivial to take the LUA scripting language and bind C# classes to it with similar names as your current extensions. C# certainly supports both LUA and XNA.

If you layered Corona onto XNA you’d be able to support XBOX, PC, Surface, Windows 7 Phones AND Metro devices from the same compiler…with far fewer changes than the Android market currently makes you jump through.

The PC and XBOX markets are hardly trivial. Can you imagine if Corona apps could build to STEAM and XBOX Live as well as all the other mobile targets?

Nothing I’ve seen in the Corona API can’t be easily replicated using XNA and C#.

Of course, you have limited resources and those resources shouldn’t be spent on tiny markets. But the XNA market is much larger than Windows Metro devices (which doesn’t even technically exist yet). Also keep in mind XNA is a stable stack, much more so than Android stuff. [import]uid: 141438 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 108375[/import]

#22

Urgh, don’t really want to wade into the mire here and I’m certainly not posting anything personal, but here goes…

I read an article today (the register, I think, but it’s all over the place) where Steve Ballmer says, in short, that MS is going all out with Win8 and it’ll be THE MS OS from next year onwards.

I have two competing views here:

  1. Windows is a massive market and if Metro is a stable touch platform that’s potentially a large penetration to have
  2. Windows8 is not out and will not have that penetration or be stable for some time, possibly (probably?) more than a year

I have plenty of confidence in Ansca to do the right thing and while it would be fantastic to have that kind of market penetration on touch devices (whether phones, tablets, some new PC or otherwise MS enabled device) I don’t expect it to be a “bright new future”-type reality any time soon. I wholly expect Win8 to fall on its face more than once before it (if ever) gets anything like XP recognition. XP itself took 5 years or thereabouts. Once it did, MS pretty much discontinued support.

It would be great to have Ansca’s (especially Carlos’) views on this, but I also don’t think it worth his time. [import]uid: 8271 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 108384[/import]

#23

You’re focusing on Metro instead of XNA. I don’t have to modify my apps in any fundamental way when I run in Metro or Windows 7 if I code in XNA. Heck I didn’t make too many changes to go from Windows XP to Windows Phone…the calls are all the same.

For example, I just finished a Surface 2 (SUR-40) XNA project. The differences between that code and a standard XNA / windows 7 app came down to about 20 lines (mostly hooking into the Surface touch events / raw feed).

With XNA Corona can target the PC and XBOX markets (and whichever device follows the XBOX 360). Worry about metro later…

XP is still supported fine. I think the cut-off date is around 2014. XNA 4.0 runs great on XP devices, even XP based mobile devices.

Metro is a big leap forward and I agree adoption is going to be slower than Windows 7. Personally, I’ve very slow in adopting to WPF, which is a steep learning curve to climb…reminds me of learning XSLT.

But hear me, I’ve been in some presentations at the corporate level (NDA still in place). Windows Tablets have wowed EVERY person who’s sampled them. I’ve had die-hard iPad users openly state they will be dumping their iPads first chance for these new devices. They are really that good.

All that being said I do think the current 2 x 2 plan is a good one. There are things even a noob Corona API user like myself would like to see addressed.

I purchased the full license because I understand we don’t always get to build our vision right away. The Corona API has some warts but I’ve been coding for almost 30 years now…I’ve seen much worse. But you’ve got to support products that have promise so I’ve voted with my wallet.

Eventually they will support the market if the business case makes sense for them.

In the meantime I’ll just port things to XNA myself…but it would be nice not to have to.

[import]uid: 141438 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 108396[/import]

#24

Carlos/Corona… I have a big question/concern.

I love Corona. I aim to build games and apps for the major mobile platforms. I agree that currently, iOS and Android are the lion’s share of the market. But there are a lot of indicators showing up on my radar that Windows8 is going to hit hard and make a concerted effort to seize a significant share of the mobile OS market.

Surely if Windows 8 took off like crazy and gained 80% of the mobile device market, Corona would support a Windows 8 version, right? (I’m being extreme to make a point.) So let’s back off those extreme numbers… at what point would Corona consider supporting Windows8 mobile devices? 10% market share? 20%? 30%? More? [import]uid: 10818 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 113672[/import]

#25

duneunit - quick answer (as much as possible :slight_smile: to your question.

But first - they are actually 2 different platforms: Windows Phone and Windows 8.

First Windows Phone - if they grab a very significant share of the market, then we will for sure support them. Now, what is “significant”? I dont know yet. In my mind anything more than 10% would start to be pretty darn significant. But for now they are still not close to that. Before then it’s tough for us to really dedicate resources and, for most developers, it’s not worth it to take on a whole new platform and its overhead. But we are monitoring closely.

As for Windows 8 (which will run desktops and tablets, not phones) - clearly they are going to be very significant no matter what. It is Windows after all. The question here is if, and how quickly, their app store will take off. That is also still up in the air. It is likely that it will eventually take off, but may take some time. We are also monitoring this closely and will want to support it when the time is right.

Let me know if this helps.

Thanks!

David [import]uid: 10668 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 113683[/import]

#26

To be honest, Corona doesn’t (yet) build for Windows XP, 7 or Mac OS X - why would it build for Metro/8? Because Metro is designed for a mobile device? It is not even being sold or installed on any OEM machines yet. There has to be a market for a figure to be considered of it - and the latest computer demonstrated by Microsoft failed on stage and won’t be on sale until next year.

My opinion: if Corona Labs think - or will think - that Metro is worth building for they will need to know, from a business perspective, that the platform can provide a rock steady foundation or their own API simply won’t stand up. Remember, the last two mobile platforms Microsoft produced died pitifully and, AFAIK, Corona Labs is still pretty much a 15 man company. Which is saying a lot, but they’re still human.

I don’t think the .NET, XNA or any other argument for Metro/8 is valid yet. I’m not saying it won’t be and I have never used and probably won’t plan to use XNA, but I’m a long time C# programmer by profession and I’ve never seen anyone be wowed by a MS related tablet. That’s my experience and, of course, not everyone is an Apple fanbois, but not everyone is a MS head either.

Just my 5 cents (or pence, here in the UK.)

TL;DR: It’s too early to tell and with MS’s current track record I think Corona Labs would be safer holding off for their own benefit.

Matt. [import]uid: 8271 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 113684[/import]

#27

@DavidRangel: Thanks for the quick response and clarification. I admit I was a little confused. I knew Metro was out there and not a big force, but I have been getting the sense Windows 8 is aiming to put itself onto smart phones, not just tablets.

Your answer was helpful and alleviates any concerns I had. I completely understand why now isn’t the time. It makes sense to build up Corona’s core strengths before thinning resources to advance into new territories. That’s just wise strategy and good kung fu. I’m relieved to know that you guys are keeping an eye on it, and I think 10% is a fair mark to judge by… perhaps lower numbers if adoption rates are particularly swift, I’d think.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I’ll be sleeping with my Corona API reference docs under my pillow tonight, dreaming of lua code, once again confident in my choice of development platforms. :wink:

[import]uid: 10818 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 113689[/import]

#28

@duneunit - yes, the difference between windows 8/windows phone/metro is a bit confusing :slight_smile: Metro is the interface they put on top of both win8 and winphone, so that doesnt simplify things.

As horacebury says, it is still early to make big bets on them. But having said that, I have been impressed by some of their functionality. And they have 2 things going for them:

  1. MS will never give up
  2. Windows8 will get on hundred of millions of devices just by virtue of being Windows

So they have a shot :slight_smile:
[import]uid: 10668 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 113691[/import]

#29

Looks like there will be Windows 8 support for Unity 3D:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3259791/unity-windows-8-windows-phone-8

With the big Windows 8 release coming up, is there more impetus to support Windows 8? [import]uid: 41124 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 128239[/import]

#30

I also read that Carlos is supporting Windows 8 out of the box in the upcoming Lanica Platino engine…
I’ve just read the the cheap version of the Microsoft “Surface” tablet has sold out…

Hope Corona kicks their ass :wink: [import]uid: 80469 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 128256[/import]

#31

Looks like there will be Windows 8 support for Unity 3D:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3259791/unity-windows-8-windows-phone-8

With the big Windows 8 release coming up, is there more impetus to support Windows 8? [import]uid: 41124 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 128239[/import]

#32

I also read that Carlos is supporting Windows 8 out of the box in the upcoming Lanica Platino engine…
I’ve just read the the cheap version of the Microsoft “Surface” tablet has sold out…

Hope Corona kicks their ass :wink: [import]uid: 80469 topic_id: 24051 reply_id: 128256[/import]