Corona Pro Plugins

Solar2D Native builds
#161

Thanks for the information. I appreciate the detail.

The only thing that put us off the “unlimited” apps idea was that it would require a higher price to be viable for us. We thought it was better to offer tiers, so people who only need to use it in a few apps can pay less… and those who need more can pay more.

As always, if someone lays out plans for a system which everyone believes is fair, in terms of both licensing and price… then we are all ears :slight_smile:

@everyone:

At the end of the day, just like Jen said… we want this to work. We are not looking to “rob” anyone. We just need to make ends meet, thats all.

Also this  is a marketplace. Just one that needs more content. Like if you go into a shop and it’s only selling one item… is it then not classified as a shop?

We are working with others already to get their plugins into the store, so it will fill out. Just takes a little while.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

#162

Unity is 10x larger community than Corona and has like 15x the amount of live games.  You can also publish to 10 platforms instead of 3.  So there is some expectation for their plugins to be more expensive.

An expectation that doesn’t make any sense. The smaller the market, the more things have to cost in order for vendors to stay in business. If I have a possible pool of 250,000 buyers, my pricing will probably be different than where I have a possible pool of 2,500,000 buyers.

CL is making a move that has the potential to increase the pool of Corona users (Composer GUI) but I think we’re still a ways from tool vendors being able to make a decent living in the Corona world while dropping prices to Unity levels.

 Jay

#163

That’s why at the end of my post I mentioned I understood a smaller market had to charge more but it was mentioned unity plugins cost $200/yr which is far from accurate.

#164

Thats why i said “some” :wink: I was not trying to say that they all were that high. Naturally.

#165

Yeah, I saw that, but if that was your summary then why put the first part at all? Just to cause trouble? Want to take it outside*, buddy?

Nobody said that generally Unity plugins cost $200/yr. “Some of the plugins there can run you $200+ a year.” The point was, there are varied prices and they often depend on the rarity and usefulness of the plugin.

 Jay

*  I’m old and fat; I don’t want to take it outside.

#166

@Jay: Exactly my thoughts.

This is just the beginning. But it would really help if everyone could create their own plugins and sell them through third-party vendors - just like it has been done by TandG-Apps, roaminggamer, etc…

CoronaLabs do not even have to host their own marketplace - they just “have” to give us the tools to create these plugins so we can create awesome third party content for everyone. (only limited to the Corona SDK subscription)

Just my opinion on this.

#167

So to summarize, my understanding is… 

Danny & Jen are pioneers who braved the unknown and invested their time and energy not knowing the ROI they would get. For this true entrepreneurial spirit they should be applauded. 

Could have, should have, would have… If you can do any better and sell for any cheaper please do. I will be the first to applaud you as well.

There is no monopoly that I can see. Just a team that seems to have gotten to the finish line first. Others will reach there no doubt in due course and thats wonderful. 

In the meanwhile, it appears that Danny (aka Gremlin) is willing to host others plugins on the marketplace he has created. This is great too. If you have the chops to write a plugin but don’t want to be bothered with hosting a licensing server and running all the shopping cart stuff then here’s an outlet for you till other marketplaces emerge. What’s wrong with that?

Overall, I truly think this is an amazing development and I do want to take another moment to thank Danny and Jen for what they did here and for Corona Labs allowing this exciting development to occur. Bravo!

Lets all remember the Crab Bucket and Tall Poppy Syndrome and try to do/be a little better than that. We need to support these amazing developments and the people behind them.

#168

Before pro becomes the new starter edition (which it is looking like it is becoming) they should allow Pro users to use plugins developed with Enterprise. Unity does, you can buy on or off the marketplace.

@Gremlin name one plugin outside of substance DB that is $200/yr for Unity. In fact it’s hard to find a single plugin for unity that isn’t one-time.

@jay I was addressing the unity plugins for $200/yr comment first. There is arguments for and against smaller system like Corona costing more. On one hand the smaller market justifies higher cost but on the other hand smaller feature set doesn’t. If you were selling a plugin for MS works it likely wouldn’t sell as high as a plugin for MS Office even though the market is smaller. But I understand the logic and in some situations a smaller niche requires higher prices.

But a few plugins at that price with Corona cost puts you at Unity pricing.

One other thing that bothers me with the way this has to be done due to the lack of market place and per app pricing is having call home functionality in the plugin that ends up in my production apps. I do not like that at all. It’s one more thing to break and one more set of network io.

#169

Before pro becomes the new starter edition (which it is looking like it is becoming)

You’ve said that a couple times – but I’m not sure what you mean by that. Current Pro version will become free? Starter/free will go away and Pro/paid will be the new entry point?

 Jay

#170

Pro is going to deteriorate value to Enterprise as Corona seems to be making moves to push people to it. But the average Corona user doesn’t want to code native for two platforms. Pro price increase already funded the free version so Corona can get a larger user base for VC attention without giving the promised pro features (marketplace and exclusivity of plugins; most plugins work with free now).

#171

I got mixed up with a plugin that was $100 per year. There are quite a few plugins that are $150>300+ on there though. However you are correct, they are one time fees. So my mistake.

You will see in my original post that we have dropped the yearly licensing requirement anyway, as the community was spot on with that. So I guess this debate is pointless now anyway :slight_smile:

I will edit my post to remove the “yearly” part of my unity statement.

#172

I saw yearly was removed and I think that was a noble and good move. But there should be an option to own it outright so there is no call home in the app. I’m talking purely theoretical as I don’t need kiip or paypal functionality myself but I see this as the line in the sand for what will be considered typical for future plugins when and if there is a marketplace or anything else.

#173

IMHO, call home is not a problem since if you have no network you will not be able to use PayPla / Kiip anyways. Whats important though is that the license checking process is kind enough to give you a “pass” if the licensing servers are unreachable while the rest of internet access is ok. 

#174

That is the thing. This is pretty much a trial run of a marketplace for Corona. As I said previously, devs can launch plugins through my system and sell them via my store. I believe this is a great way for Corona to trial how the community would take to a plugin marketplace. 

If it is successful then they can launch their own. People forget that they are a small team and have a gazillion things to do at once, features, bug fixes and so on. So they have to prioritise and ensure that what they are working on is worthwhile, in both the short term and long term.

If this takes off, then they can get their marketplace out with the data and knowledge that it is time well spent. If not then they can allocate that time to other areas. It’s a win win for absolutely everyone.

My 2¢

#175

Thank you. As I said, I want this to work for everyone and am trying my hardest to figure out a way to make these accessible to everyone, and not have to live on the streets :slight_smile:

I agree the option to own it outright would be very nice, and I am sure that we can come up with something in that regard. I think this whole thing is going to take a little bit to get the balance right. Again, valuable data for corona to use for their own marketplace should that happen.

Lets try to see this as a positive thing, and a thing that could bloom into something great for the whole community. I am one of the biggest and most passionate Corona supporters and I am absolutely thrilled that I get to play a little part in hopefully making Corona even better and more extendable. My post count doesn’t reflect this, but I have been using Corona since day one.

#176

@cspence:

Yes I know how Unity works with plugins/third-party services. They are doing a great job. But I am curious about their response to Unreal and CryEngine`s new licensing policy…

I have tried out UE4 and their mobile App/game examples… they work pretty well on iOS. This is a new competitor for Corona SDK.

And UE4 is preparing their own marketplace at the moment - it will be interesting to see how that works.

Anyway - I have to admit that Jen and Danny have done a great job at building these plugins and providing Corona developers a platform to sell their (Enterprise) plugins(!)… 

But it is not as valuable as the their competitors at the moment in my opinion.

A little bit more than three years ago when I started my career as a game designer/developer there was not very much competition in the market. Corona was the fastest and most valuable way to create apps and games for mobile devices. Unity had been very hard to learn (from my experience at this time) and the other SDKs were not as beginner friendly as Corona.

But today there is a totally different situation. Learning Unity was quite easy since the community has provided many many very useful tutorials. The same goes for Unreal Engine. Their community is very helpful, better than Unity´s but on the same level as these forums.

Corona needs to make changes and if these rumours are true then this is a big step in the right direction.

If my co-workers requests me to create an application then the following are my answers at the moment:

  1. Size Matters? --> Corona SDK

  2. Not much time for a prototype? --> Corona SDK/Unity3D(2D)

  3. just a business app? --> Corona SDK (if all requested features are do-able without Enterprise ! - if not then this goes out to our external partners)

  4. 3D graphics? --> Unity/Unreal

  5. “simple” 2D game?—> Corona SDK

  6. “big” 2D/2.5D game --> Unity

  7. “special” 2D/2.5D --> Unreal

Especially if you are going bigger than “normal” then Corona SDK gets a little bit too chaotic - even through you are splitting everything up into modules for examples - but this might be related to my workflow, too.

For no good reason I would like to compare one of the games created by me with Corona to just the basic stuff you need in Unity and Unreal Engine to run a simple “hello world” app on your iOS device:

Corona SDK: 26,4 mb full game developed with Corona (and currently getting approved by Apple)

Unity Free version: 48mb (hello world text screen)

Unreal Engine 4 (nothing except for a single “hello world” text object included): 89 mb

But if app/game size does not matter then you can see what framework I would use for different cases.

My “advice” for Corona (who am I to give someone advice? :wink: )

  1. Do not keep everything behind closed doors (closed betas ! )

  2. Give everyone ( /Pro users only?) the ability to create their own plugins

This is just my opinion at this moment. 

Max

#177

Thanks, Kerem and everyone else for your support. Danny and I are working to make it right, as I said earlier. Chris, we hear your objections, but I believe that you’re not going to invest in this new initiative at any rate so I’d actually be interested in hearing more from folks who WOULD like to participate in one way or another to see what we can do to fine-tune your experience.

best,

Jen

#178

Not sure where you get your numbers from but hello world in unity is 8.5mb and if you have Pro you can make it smaller.

Unreal is overhyped. U4 doesn’t even properly support android right now and has other issues. It’s really immature now but pricing is competitive and may eventually drive down the rest of the market.

I was hoping unity 5 would be cheaper but same price. But it is a perpetual license.

I would not be so fast to claim corona owns 2d. 65% of release unity games are 2d. I use unity exclusively for 2d and love it.

#179

I would if it was tapjoy or something like Parse. I just don’t have a use for kiip or paypal personally and as I mentioned privately I do not use Corona much anymore.

#180

Parse is next on my list (should be no surprise :))

best,

Jen