Lime Update -- news, not a download link ;)

Lime
#1

I hoped by now that I’d have been knee-deep into Lime for at least a couple weeks with a list on my desk of fixes and enhancements to start in on.

But this is software development we’re dealing with, and a couple other projects have run long so Lime is still just sitting there…

…and looking at my schedule I’m trying to figure out where to fit it in because with those projects running long, it means I have little free time before my next (pays the bills) projects start.

My intentions were good, but life intervened. :frowning:

And instead of just holding on to Lime for an unknown number of weeks or months before I can dig into it, I’m wondering if there isn’t a better way.

What I’m thinking about is making Lime open source , probably with an MIT license which allows for personal and commercial use.

The Main Pros:

  • Smarter people than me can work on the code and that will benefit all.
  • More people can use Lime, which gives the devs more feedback, etc.
  • A community effort is usually more powerful than a solo effort.

The Main Cons:

  • I’m not able to get rich directly selling Lime. :wink:
  • People who purchased Lime in the past may be disgruntled because new people will get it free.

I’m hoping the disgruntled people are few in number – I know I’ve paid for things and then had them go on sale, go open source, etc. I just figure I paid to get “early access” and hope others will do likewise.

Right now I’m thinking this is the best future for Lime – but if anybody has differing opinions, please let me know here or via the Contact form at OutlawGameTools.com

Thanks!

Jay [import]uid: 9440 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 335519[/import]

#2

Hi Jay,

First off, I don’t think OSS Lime is a big deal for existing users. We paid for the previous version, it’s had little-to-no support for quite some time now, and OSS is a big step over today’s “nothing”.

Now, to the real question, should Lime go OSS. There are two sides to consider:

1. If you go OSS…
a. There is at least one existing Tile Loader on the code exchange that could be merged into Lime for a pretty interesting and legitimate github project. Combining the 2 would be a lot of work, but if somebody could pull it off there could be a really competent Tile-Loader for all.

That is, if the other solution has managed-tile-loading. If it doesn’t, both solutions are still up the creek without a paddle. (no2games Corona Tiled loader)

b. There is a tremendous need for a legit, up-to-date Tile Loader right now. Plenty of games - and genres, even - are locked out from us until one pops-up. (In an ideal world this would even be a preloaded package in Corona, but we all know how long their backlog is.) Making Lime OSS - and if (a) happens! - would be a big step in the right direction.

2. If you don’t go OSS…
a. If you don’t, well, you risk either being left behind by OSS (such as no2games’ solution) or paid (by dyson122’s inspiring looking engine) if a Lime update does not appear within the next 3 months.

b. That being said, Glider and Outlaw show that a lot of improvements have come from internal competition in the space. Having multiple solutions could spur that on.

c. Unfortunately, I know from talking to Graham and seeing Lime wither on the vine for the last two years that it’s a huge undertaking. You’d need to: (i) revise the entire package, (ii) add some form of culling/tile management, (iii) get a whole web storefront up again, (iv) be prepared to support it with point releases for at least 6 months and (v) be prepared to see a whole lot of questions and requests from the community.

Whether you can handle that is a question only you can answer. (If I had to guess, your heart says “yes” but your head says “no”, right?) [import]uid: 41884 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141206[/import]

#3

“Heart says yes, head says no.”

That’s about the size of it. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the for/against comments. Based on that, comments via email, Twitter DMs, etc., I’m leaning toward turning Lime into an open source project.

Now, all I have to do is figure out how to use git… :wink:

Jay

PS - Seriously, I’m going to put it online as soon as I can do it without screwing something up. I want to make sure it’s ready for people to start using, but also to start contributing to the code base. That’s the real reason for doing this, after all.

[EDIT: Miswrote that I’d already decided to open source it rather than leaning that way. Still waiting on some final comments from people who know about these things.] [import]uid: 9440 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141318[/import]

#4

Jay,

I’m happy to help you manage the process of getting Lime onto GitHub and would be open to maintaining at least some portion of it…

Let me know if that sounds like help.

Wilson [import]uid: 51498 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141333[/import]

#5

I’d be glad to help, too! (Maintaining, not GitHub :slight_smile: )

C [import]uid: 147322 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141350[/import]

#6

I’m a purchaser of this in the past and I’m not at all disgruntled. If this goes open source it would increase the likeliness that it would be useful to myself and others. [import]uid: 45650 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141355[/import]

#7

Same here. For what I paid for Lime it’s not a big concern having it go open source. [import]uid: 9035 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141528[/import]

#8

Hi Jay,

I general think it’s a good idea to make it open source but…

Aren’t you worried that making it open source it ‘spins around’ without a clear development direction?
and if you choose to make it open source, what would your role be?
A sort of guiding/advise or coordination role? Or does it mean you completely pull your hands of lime?
[import]uid: 106768 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141536[/import]

#9

Hey guys,

Just wanted to chip in to give a little support for the decision to take on a community led tile engine.

I’ve been experimenting with Caleb’s GridMap and no2Games Corona Tiled. Both excellent resources, however if you can all pull together (along with Jay on Lime) then I really think you might be able to fill a hole in the Corona framework.

Kudos to you all… [import]uid: 33275 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141552[/import]

#10

Jay,

Sorry to push the decision, but is Lime going to go open source anytime soon? I understand there are people you have to talk to and really have to communicate with before the final decision… but it seems like you may be having seller/donator’s remorse? I’d just like to know because I’ve kinda put my project on hold seeing if lime will be O.S.S… either way it’d be nice to know. Just asking for some hint as to when or if it’s going to happen. Thanks!

-Curt [import]uid: 215209 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141773[/import]

#11

Curt,

I wouldn’t really characterize it as sellers/donator’s remorse, but yes, I jumped the gun on saying anything. Much like I jumped the gun on deciding to “revive” Lime in the first place. If there’s one major mistake I keep repeating over and over in my life, it’s taking on more projects than I have time for.

So I’d “mostly” decided to open source Lime and started reading up on how to do that in a way that would give it the best shot at turning into a vibrant project and not die like so many other open source projects – and after I opened my mouth about it I was contacted by someone who mentioned other options to keeping Lime alive but without giving up control.

The main thing is that I don’t want Lime to die. Secondary thing is that I’d like to make some money from it. :wink:

I have a “personal thing” that’s sucking up most of my free time until after the 13th. By the weekend after that I think I’ll make a decision one way or the other.

I’m not sure how Lime being OS or not affects your project – after all, if you own it you can mess with the code all you want – but I’d almost never tell anyone to postpone a project based on something that *might* happen.

Jay
[import]uid: 9440 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141787[/import]

#12

Hi Jay,

First off, I don’t think OSS Lime is a big deal for existing users. We paid for the previous version, it’s had little-to-no support for quite some time now, and OSS is a big step over today’s “nothing”.

Now, to the real question, should Lime go OSS. There are two sides to consider:

1. If you go OSS…
a. There is at least one existing Tile Loader on the code exchange that could be merged into Lime for a pretty interesting and legitimate github project. Combining the 2 would be a lot of work, but if somebody could pull it off there could be a really competent Tile-Loader for all.

That is, if the other solution has managed-tile-loading. If it doesn’t, both solutions are still up the creek without a paddle. (no2games Corona Tiled loader)

b. There is a tremendous need for a legit, up-to-date Tile Loader right now. Plenty of games - and genres, even - are locked out from us until one pops-up. (In an ideal world this would even be a preloaded package in Corona, but we all know how long their backlog is.) Making Lime OSS - and if (a) happens! - would be a big step in the right direction.

2. If you don’t go OSS…
a. If you don’t, well, you risk either being left behind by OSS (such as no2games’ solution) or paid (by dyson122’s inspiring looking engine) if a Lime update does not appear within the next 3 months.

b. That being said, Glider and Outlaw show that a lot of improvements have come from internal competition in the space. Having multiple solutions could spur that on.

c. Unfortunately, I know from talking to Graham and seeing Lime wither on the vine for the last two years that it’s a huge undertaking. You’d need to: (i) revise the entire package, (ii) add some form of culling/tile management, (iii) get a whole web storefront up again, (iv) be prepared to support it with point releases for at least 6 months and (v) be prepared to see a whole lot of questions and requests from the community.

Whether you can handle that is a question only you can answer. (If I had to guess, your heart says “yes” but your head says “no”, right?) [import]uid: 41884 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141206[/import]

#13

“Heart says yes, head says no.”

That’s about the size of it. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the for/against comments. Based on that, comments via email, Twitter DMs, etc., I’m leaning toward turning Lime into an open source project.

Now, all I have to do is figure out how to use git… :wink:

Jay

PS - Seriously, I’m going to put it online as soon as I can do it without screwing something up. I want to make sure it’s ready for people to start using, but also to start contributing to the code base. That’s the real reason for doing this, after all.

[EDIT: Miswrote that I’d already decided to open source it rather than leaning that way. Still waiting on some final comments from people who know about these things.] [import]uid: 9440 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141318[/import]

#14

Jay,

I’m happy to help you manage the process of getting Lime onto GitHub and would be open to maintaining at least some portion of it…

Let me know if that sounds like help.

Wilson [import]uid: 51498 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141333[/import]

#15

I’d be glad to help, too! (Maintaining, not GitHub :slight_smile: )

C [import]uid: 147322 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141350[/import]

#16

I’m a purchaser of this in the past and I’m not at all disgruntled. If this goes open source it would increase the likeliness that it would be useful to myself and others. [import]uid: 45650 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141355[/import]

#17

Same here. For what I paid for Lime it’s not a big concern having it go open source. [import]uid: 9035 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141528[/import]

#18

Hi Jay,

I general think it’s a good idea to make it open source but…

Aren’t you worried that making it open source it ‘spins around’ without a clear development direction?
and if you choose to make it open source, what would your role be?
A sort of guiding/advise or coordination role? Or does it mean you completely pull your hands of lime?
[import]uid: 106768 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141536[/import]

#19

Hey guys,

Just wanted to chip in to give a little support for the decision to take on a community led tile engine.

I’ve been experimenting with Caleb’s GridMap and no2Games Corona Tiled. Both excellent resources, however if you can all pull together (along with Jay on Lime) then I really think you might be able to fill a hole in the Corona framework.

Kudos to you all… [import]uid: 33275 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141552[/import]

#20

Jay,

Sorry to push the decision, but is Lime going to go open source anytime soon? I understand there are people you have to talk to and really have to communicate with before the final decision… but it seems like you may be having seller/donator’s remorse? I’d just like to know because I’ve kinda put my project on hold seeing if lime will be O.S.S… either way it’d be nice to know. Just asking for some hint as to when or if it’s going to happen. Thanks!

-Curt [import]uid: 215209 topic_id: 35519 reply_id: 141773[/import]